These comments clearly illustrate that there are lots of angry, embittered, likely white, likely male humans who find the arguments in this article insulting. And they should feel insulted. After all, they have spent the majority of the waking hours of their adult lives doing something they did not particularly want to do, and are irate at the thought that maybe, possibly, others may not want, and, GASP, eventually may not even NEED, to do the same as they. Because, perhaps, they look at the silver in their own hair, the lines around their eyes, growing deeper down their cheeks, feel a pain in their lower back that wasn't there the day before, and wonder, quietly, if they've been had.
We only get one of these life things. Nobody asks if they were productive enough, or a good enough employee, when they find they're on their deathbed. The only question that really matters is, "Did I enjoy that? Did I have a good time?"
What a waste, if the answer is no. I can think of few things more wasteful than that.
Extremely narrow view. Careers develop skills and know-how, also, there's the assumption of responsibility at higher levels.
If we as a society want 'stuff' - including medicine, healthcare, security, roads, bridges, airplanes, cars, entertainment etc. then people need to 'do that work'.
Thankfully, most people develop a sense of satisfaction and fulfillment out of doing useful things.
This perennially selfish view that 'we work for no reason' is ridiculous.
Everything that we have depends on a vast system of complex interactions, jobs, skillsets and dedicated people. That's why 'people do it'.
If everyone wants to be 'golf pros' and 'youtubers' then good luck with that colonoscopy that nobody wants to perform 'because boring'.
Well, not everybody wants to be youtubers. Why can't somebody enjoy being a doctor? Or doing colonoscopies and then, toddling off to bed. Not everybody shares your taste. Societies will find the people who want to do those jobs. There will be pay differentials.
But the thing I find disgusting is the idea that an employer has the unlimited access to an individual's time beyond their contractual "hours". What's next? Does the employer get to determine who that employee gets to date? To marry? That's invasive. Let's bring back the culture where we have boundaries.
I mean, if it's an emergency, of course, we'll have some all hands on board overtime. But why does the employer get anytime outside of an emergency. I mean, wouldn't it be strange to be on call during your honeymoon?
Of course every society needs worker drones. Most people are drones. No offense to doctors.. but they're just drones. They aren't any more special than my sanitation workers because... well, garbage smells. I view sanitation workers as very important people for a functioning society. (That and the fact that they are ensuring less disease in society.)
Most people will work. But don't expect everybody to worship their job or anything. I know doctors who say "Hey, it's just a job". They don't give a damn about the glorious nature of medicine. It's just a job to pay the bills. (Seriously, that's the truth. It's not some grand romance that you and your kind think it is. I mean, if we want romance, it's scientists and artists and real innovators. It's not butter and bread professions like GI specialist doctors.)
Oh.. and I don't care for the implicit sneer job at youtubers. They made a career and some of them make plenty of money doing this. Same for golf pros. The ones who are successful should be applauded because they didn't follow all the worker drones and they made it work. As for the rest, 99 % are losers who would be losers in any other field as well. You're a loser. I'm a loser. Most of us are in that 99%. If you don't believe me, whip out your nobel prize in whatever discipline you are in. Show me your gold stars. Your little prizes for outstanding person of the year. See what I mean? Most people are gloriously ordinary and there's nothing wrong with that. We ordinary 99% are the ones who hold the weight of the world so that the 1% can shine.
Don't forget the ones that like to go to Walmart and shake their ass for tick tock they're gonna be big celebrities one day so they've got to be prepared they can't go to work they always have got to be ready then when they become celebrities then you see them on some talk show on TV talking about how bad their life is and how it's a downward spiral and how they have to take drugs and ever since they became a celebrity their life is so horrible they have to work all the time and make appearances and nobody knows how hard it is to be them boo hoo
see my comment above you! these people have been had and that's why theyre so bitter. those of us who quit the game, or never even bothered to play it, are the targets of their rage. too bad.
Live freely, live the life you want, yes. Just don't whine about how the government, corporations, "the system", etc. aren't supporting you. Freedom and irresponsibility are fundamentally incompatible.
The government doesn't need to support us, and any politician saying so should be treated with great skepticism, but it does need to get out of our ways.
well the fact is we're in a fake economy with COVID; free money and no-evictions (for not paying rent) can't last forever, and when it dries up people are going to realize that you DO need to 'earn your keep', just like every animal in the world. The difference is instead of eat or be eaten, you can just work at an air conditioned office. wah.
Fred, I'm so confused by your comment. Do you just think that people are choosing not to work and in turn not paying their rent? Why do you believe that? The eviction moratoriums started because people were laid off or furloughed from their jobs and could not pay their rent. The fact is, most people are back to work, but many had to take jobs with a significant pay cut. Or they were hired back but with fewer hours. Or maybe they went back to school (and are earning no wages or maybe part-time wages). Already many people in the United States pay almost half of their monthly wages toward rent. If you are earning no wages, or earning half of what you used to, how can we expect people to keep up with their rental payments? Oh, and by the way, we are also asking them not only to start paying rent again, but to pay their back rent that went unpaid during the eviction moratorium. How were they supposed to save to pay their back rent when they couldn't even afford to pay the monthly rent? Perhaps that money went to groceries, or paying the electricity bill.
We have to remember that people are people. Humans with lives and families. Have a little compassion.
Yeah God forbid you throughout your life you've worked hard to buy property to rent to people so you can have an income and now you've got deadbeats in there for the last year they haven't had to pay rent and they shouldn't have to pay rent. The pasted owed rent should all just be forgiven and forgotten meanwhile the poor guy who owns the building still has to pay for insurance, mortgage and all the maintenance and upkeep of the property.. what a sorry Society we've become where the people that do the least in society have become the ones with the most power to wheeled simply by tweeting and twittering and airing their grievances and anger on the internet and the poor guy who's worked his whole life to do and accomplish is frowned upon and look at that as a person who's just trying to rob and cheat people because he wants his fucking rent
Right? Like, seeing donald trump screaming his rage on the internet is just sad, but he had so much power for so long despite saying little to nothing of value. He didn't even pay to live in the whitehouse, and I bet he got free stuff. Got a loan from his daddy of a million dollars, and at one point managed to bankrupt a casino. I can't believe people like him are allowed to thrive in this environment while people who do actual work are left on the side to starve and not get paid what they worked for, it's just disgusting. Can you imagine going through 18 years of schooling and learning just to get told you haven't done enough and be denied a living wage? I sure can't. Well put.
I feel like this article is missing an important point that maybe a lot of us are missing as well. We don't just work to make an "income" in order to participate in society. And our boss, ourself and shareholders aren't the only people that are benefiting from our work. Work, if done right, should be an act of service for the community in which we live. Our work is meaningful, not just because it helps you to pay the bills, but because it is a means in which we can make other peoples lives a little better. That is the essence of capitalism as I see it.
I am so sick of listening to employers complain about younger employees being non-invested or lacking work ethic. And while your article implies that a "career" is now considered by young employees to be less than appealing, because of the traditional demands of a "career" mentality, there is a solution for employers. There is a HUGE pool of people employers could hire who want to work, know what a commitment to a career requires, are used to the kinds of demands employers have historically imposed on employees, generally don't have family demands that interfere with job commitment, and in today's world are generally very healthy. That's right, retired workers who still want to work. So, until employers are willing to give up their outdated concepts about "older" workers and do away with the rampant ageism in HR they can shut the hell up about lacking a dependable workforce.
Older people can't find work because of age discrimination laws. It protects incumbents within an organization after age 40, but it makes getting a new job terribly hard if you're middle aged and looking.
It's because older workers are savvy. They've had half their adult lives in the working world. They are also going to pore over carefully the materials they get in HR and any state and federal age discrimination protections.
Older workers know their rights and are not afraid to use them.
This assumes you can get in the door for an interview in the first place. The reality is that HR departments have moved to obtaining resumes through email applications, or employment websites, because the algorithms that screen the resumes have been programed to be able to weed out older applicants, based on subtle clues, and it is virtually impossible to prove they are discriminating and skirting those state and federal laws.
True. I love the application process where they ask you a million what-if questions. These are scanned by a computer for certain words and if you don't use them, you are out.
No kidding. Well if that's their criteria, good luck to them and they still need to stop complaining. No skin off of my nose. I don't have to work I want to work, and, I'm not the one who has to explain to a board of directors why we're behind schedule and not accepting any new projects. I'm sure the board is also woke and will be ok with that thinking.
You get my Vote!!!!!! Very well put. Thank you. BTW this exists in many professional areas people think are 'safe' like medicine and law. My specialist returned from maternity leave and she and I were talking about the value we have for our work (I am a lawyer) I emphasise OUR work. But, she said, if you are human and life happens or you have children etc it very quickly transforms you into zero value again. She said, the basic skills and ability never goes away and I added that we would be keeping up with developments in our areas of specialisation anyway since we chose to do all this work because it is OURS and it energised us. I am a tad older than she is but, I know, that I can handle a case and case management in my sleep in half or less the time it takes less experienced barristers. Fortunately we are classed as self-employed but when I decided to give it a break for a bit and transfer the skills into other areas I found the age block was huge. To me, I am interested in the whole package, which means I will accept far less money if the work I do is the right fit for me. But the assumption is either that we will expect too much money or that we will take over the place.... filled with kids/people my son's age. Management should be about team building, collaboration, camaraderie and thus... energised staff. It's horizontal at its best, respecting the value that each member brings because without them we couldn't get this done. I did some editing work at a magazine and the graphic designer, now a great friend, fascinated me with how similar and yet how different his work process was from mine. But I know I am no replacement for him, nor he for me. But what we all created together was of true value. Sadly we had a crazed Project Manager who was retiring soon and dug her heels in at the suggestion of anything involving actual effort. She sat locked in her office on the phone to her husband or emailing her friends. It demoralised so many truly skilled and energetic people. I promised I would leave before that affected me and I did leave but it did damage to my morale as well. Morale is priority number one, right? Oh well, I could go on forever. This was a great article. And comments. Thanks.
I'm a professional geologist and spent 30 years as an independent environmental consultant planning, managing, and doing the field work to assess and remediate hazardous and contaminated sites. After retiring I missed the work so much I wanted back in but didn't want to start up a business again. So I applied to numerous openings, with consulting firms, that I was more than qualified for including entry level jobs. No dice. The thing they don't get is, since I don't have to work and have other income sources like SS, I don't need to be paid a salary reflective of my experience. They would be getting a senior level professional at a junior level salary. So the salary concern is short sighted. Concerns we won't be flexible or able to collaborate with younger employees are unfounded. How could we have maintained years of successful employment if we had not learned to be flexible? And, in all those years do they think we never had to collaborate with younger colleagues? It's their loss but they can't complain about lack of staff if they continue their present hiring practices. I agree, this article opens a discussion that needs to be discussed and exposed to more people if we want to change misguided perceptions about a capable and available senior work force.
By way of explanation, I am 62 and retired. I started life in the corporate world (banking) and was doing well (promotions given, responsibilities added, people managed) and I bailed at 28. My last words to my boss were, "fuck you Betty, I quit". I realized the corporate life and all the ethical compromises I was being forced to make were just not for me. I have never been good at compartmentalizing my life.
I found various ways to participate in the economy that were not "careerist" and have lived quite a happy, comfortable existence.
I recognize the pressures are different now in the 2020's than they were in the 1980's but all the nonsense spewed in the article you referenced was being spewed back then too. Charley, I think the biggest question younger people should ask themselves when trying to think this through is how they will look back on the life they lived. I know that is a difficult thing to do in younger years but figuring out how to order your values and priorities matters.
As Bernaud Malamaud wrote in The Natural, “We have two lives... the life we learn with and the life we live after that."
Mary, I appreciate your perspective! I would be really interested to hear what other ways you participated in work and still lived contently. I am looking for other options for my own life, but coming up short.
Sarah, I started bartending when I left banking. It was ridiculously lucrative and not in anyway professional (like it is now). I eventually managed and then owned a couple small restaurants. It is around the clock responsibility, not everybody lkes that. I also spent a good chunk of time as an asst. golf pro at a country club, which is mostly a sales clerk that gives golf lessons. I was lucky to be doing that during the rise of Tiger Woods. Being a female was an advantage because women want to be taught by a woman, parents prefer a woman to teach their young kids, and old guys prefer being taught by a woman so I was crazy busy. I spent time dabbling in the trades too, light construction and painting. I really enjoy working with my hands. I think the key is to be open to that which might be a bit off the well trod path.
It's almost as if capitalism is exploitative by design and consuming all of people's most productive years in order to enrich the bosses and shareholders while workers get screwed at every turn is the point. It's almost as if capitalism isn't really about lifting all boats with a rising tide, but is actually about extracting labor value from working people to make the rich richer. I feel like someone maybe wrote a book about this? Richard Marx or something?
Rubbish. The standard of living of working people has increased monumentally over the last 200 years and continues to this day. 30 years ago cars were kind of crap, people took far fewer flights (working class did not fly for vacation), there was no internet, not access to information, open-heart surgery could kill you whereas now it's an outpatient thing etc. etc.. Most people today couldn't hack a normal life just 80 years ago.
While capital is accumulating in the 0.1%, that's actually a small portion of the population, and they tend to reinvest the vast majority of their fortunes. Bill Gates could live in a sprawling castle with 100's of servants, footman at every meal, but he doesn't.
People have more choice and wealth now than ever before in history by a longshot.
LOL!!!! This will be lost on many.... don't think for a second I didn't pick up on the subtle sarcasm said the tree hugging leftist. I like Richard Marx too, bwaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha!!!!
Cuba is inspired by Stalinism which developed from Leninism, which broke from Marxism on many key points both in theory and in practice. Marx, unlike Stalin, rejected the idea of socialism in one country. It can have nasty consequences like having capitalist countries try to choke the life out of your country in transition to socialism so that people like you can try to claim that socialism doesn't work. Also Cuba isn't and has never been communist. Communism describes a stateless society where people contribute labor on the basis of ability and resources are distributed on the basis of need. Communism was the END GOAL for Castro's Cuba, not ever a description of its status quo. Describing Cuba under Castro as communist is a bit like looking at a bowl of batter and saying it's a testament to cake not being a good dessert. I any case, you don't have the be a Marxist (I'm not one) to recognize the incisiveness of his critique of capitalism, which was the focus of almost all of his writing.
The whole "most murderous ideology" thing is such obvious bad faith argumentation. Deaths under capitalist regimes are dismissed as "oh, well, that was just a dictatorial government, not the economic system. Deaths under Stalinist regimes, on the other hand, are unambiguous indictments of all forms of socialism, even when the countries in question weren't anything close to socialist. And of course, deaths resulting from inequitable resource distribution and hording of food and medicine for corporate profit, pollution, brutal labor conditions, and wars for the profit of the fossil fuel and weapons industries -- well, we aren't even supposed to notice those...
Um, not the slave trade was not. The slave trade was a product of European feudalism. Feudalism is not capitalism, and forcing people to work without receiving wages for that work is not capitalism. Moreover, aside from the evil of owning other humans, slavery is an incredibly inefficient system since one has to feed the slaves one owns even when there is no work for them and that slaves, receiving no pay, work just enough to avoid a beating. This inefficiency is, in large part, why the south lost the Civil War. This was all covered in high school history class. Did you sleep through that lesson?
This is all so much hairsplitting. Socialism, communism, Stalinism, Leninism, Marxism, feudalism, mercantilism, fascism are all collectivist, centrally planned wealth re-distributionist systems and, as such, are bound to fail, to result in poverty and don't respect individual rights.
Socialism has NEVER worked anywhere it has been tried. You are using that threadbare excuse that Cuba failed because of the US embargo. The whole rest of the world hasn't embargoed Cuba. Cuba failed because of socialism, plain and simple.
The UK tried socialism, even though it was democratic socialism (They all still could vote for representatives in the UK.) but the country still ground to a halt in the late 1970s crumbling because of their socialistic system. Then Thatcher was elected and the markets were freed up and things got better. The Fabian Society caused a lot of misery by selling people on the lie that socialism would make their lives better, and now we have people trying to do the same here in the USA. The ills of government intervention in the markets and economy in the USA are being blamed on capitalism and we haven't been capitalistic for many decades in the USA. I wish we were, life would be a lot better, and we are missing out.
When Jeremy Corbyn was trying to become Prime Minister of the UK, he said he'd again nationalize industry if he became PM. He was alive the last time that was tried in the UK. It resulted in disaster then with decades of market distortions because of that coming home to roost in 1978. Dinosaur Corbyn has been in Parliament nearly that long, winning his seat in 1983. If he'd won as PM, and again nationalized industry, the result would have been another 1978 in the future.
"The UK tried socialism, even though it was democratic socialism (They all still could vote for representatives in the UK.)"
Nope. UK was a capitalist country with limited elements of social democracy, e.g. their healthcare system. Never anything close to socialist. Socialism doesn't mean a robust social safety net or state intervention in the economy. It means social ownership of the means of production. That never happened in the UK.
Oh, and while you're trying to assert that capitalism respects individual rights, care to explain the origin of private property rights and how the violent forced enclosure of the commons that marked the beginning of capitalism wasn't a violation of individual liberty and of the nonaggression principle that "libertarians" claim to love? Your ideology is built on a house of card and you only don't see it because you exist in an echo chamber.
So I am an adult at the end of my career, but I am watching my kids who are just starting out after finishing college. One they can't get a job out of college - they get offered contracts for a year - good pay but no benefits , no time off and when the year is over the job is over. Companies rarely hire directly anymore. Even when the kids apply to job directly to a company, it is a temp agency that contracts them and it is a contract job. Took 3 years and 3 contracts for my oldest to get hired as an employee - first time she has had sick days or any benefits, all their friends are the same.... Then there is my experience - 17 years at a job, and the entire department was mass outsourced to India. Getting on in age having to worry about my age making employment difficult, and looking at new jobs, even ones in my old pay range, a lot fewer benefits, expensive healthcare.... I think the layoffs allow employers out of grandfathered benefits, and start over the jobs at the same pay with no benefits. And yes I put in tons of overtime at no pay since I was salaried, lots of weekends and holiday work.... and still laided off... loved my job, thought it was a career - but it is a lie, young people listened to their elders and know it is a lie before they even start working.
I am like you towards the end of my "career" but here's the thing we are just working hard. There is not now nor was there ever a safety net. This is America. Corporations run the congress and they just want cheap labor - hasn't changed since Reagan killed the unions for better or worse. I don't get why anyone thinks there ever was a safety net or cushy job.
I have worked a lot of shitty jobs and have had a few "good" jobs. The one thing they all have in common is that you are an "at will" employee unless you belong to a union and can be laid off at any time. I feel like we give politicians too much credit for economic success and downturns when the large corporate lobbyists are constantly working to make sure that fair labor laws and employee protection is/are avoided at any cost.
I started at age 13 cleaning up construction sites and doing shit like drain tile. Then worked on fixing stuff and worked in the ghettos of DC and Baltimore. I have worked plenty of crappy jobs. Everybody is busting their hind end - the 1% who cares about them - we are the 99% where nothing is ever committed other than death and taxes.
You realize that most of the 1% worked their way there right? Its getting less dynamic, but overall, if you actually look with your eyes, you will see mostly self made people.
No they didn't most the 1% inherited considerable wealth then made more - the US right now has less mobility than its had since the gilded age - the average inheritance for the 1% is 5 million dollars, and keep in mind they don't get money until someone dies, but having family that is wealthy means better schools connections , options, money they can borrow from family.... the founders of facebook, microsoft, apple are always listed as self made millionaires, but they came from upper middle class to out right wealthy families that got them into Harvard... they could never of been self made if they'd come from a family of average wealth.
What a hilariously stupid and completely unsupported comment to make. Hey maybe if you lick their boots enough you too can join the rich kids club lol. Any day now!
It's getting less dynamic because of government interference in our lives via laws, regulations and the tax code. I read stories about people that started businesses decades ago and am shocked how easy it was to do compared to now. The snarl of red tape we face has grown exponentially over the decades.
I don't care about the 1%. I was never one of them and never will be. I am not taking a shot at them - I just don't give a shit about them. I have worked in high school in their homes - their world is very different than the rest of us.
Its not that different. They can die miserable like the rest of us. They can die happy like the rest of us. We all die. I know a few of them, I will be one of them in five short years, i have no college degree, and I did roofing in July in AZ. Its all the same.
Americans cry too much. Visit the rest of the world. Not the trendy vacation spots, the rest of the world. Be incredibly thankful for your 'shitty' jobs.
Living in Europe as an expat, there are many things that frustrate me beyond measure. But one of the aspects I love is that you are not defined by your job. In many contexts, it's actually considered an egregious breach of etiquette to ask someone you don't know well what they do for a living. In the US, it's usually the first thing *everyone* asks in *every* context.
Lately I have been making an effort _not_ to ask about someone's work when meeting them. It's so ingrained in so many of us. And usually our jobs are not that interesting anyways!
Which part of Europe is this? I have lived in Europe for over 25 years and both my children grew up here. You probably don't realise it (or as they say, you are a dumb American). They are not as straightforward about it but the first thing anyone wants to know when they meet you is how much money you probably have, what you do, where you live (all the same question really). This is what Americans are told constitutes 'European subtle sophistication.' I find it as subtle as a sledgehammer as my former (European) husband would say. I once had a neighbour who persistently enquired as to how I paid my trash collection. Evidently, this tells her how much (ballpark) money I have. I am a New Yorker. My mother taught us that it is truly obnoxious to mind other people's business and curiosity and interest are not the same thing. One may be indulged but never the other. The whole thing here boils down to whether or not they will greet you as you pass by. If you rank equal or greater, then yes. If lesser, you are utterly invisible and they make a point of it. That's not subtlety, it's cowardice and cheap minded. It is definitely not considered 'an egregious breach' in any European country we have been in and that's basically the entire continent. God I miss American forthright honesty. It may be crass at times, but at least they own it.
Yes, while class pigeonholing is the national sport in the UK (I'm presuming thats where you were), you don't disagree that they avoid questions about one's job.
Sorry that's been your experience, but I don't see how that's cause for name-calling. I'm sympathetic to your underlying frustration because I share it to some extent. I've lived mostly in Italy for the past 20 years, with a block of time in France, so maybe I shouldn't have generalized for privacy. I clearly did *not* say, however, that people don't care about social class. That wasn't my point at all. I merely said it was a relief not to be constantly asked what I do for a living (which, personally, I rarely have been). That particular question bores me to tears, and I find it usually cripples conversation more than it helps it along.
Couldn’t agree more. I’m 50 years old, a Gen-X’er, and have thought about many of the things the author says since my very first “professional” job. At a point I thought getting an MBA was the way out, it would allow me to find a job I really enjoyed. So, I went to a top 10 MBA program. Better career opportunities opened, and I chose to work for a nonprofit, which should be much more satisfying than working for a big corporation. I am now a VP at that nonprofit, so I have checked a lot of the “successful” career boxes… But I still don’t like my job enough to do it every weekday, using practically all my higher energy waking hours. And to think I have to do it for at least 15 more years in order to retire with a half-decent income is depressing. When I go to LinkedIn in (probably false) hopes to find greener pastures somewhere else, I sometimes find posts like “I love HR”, “I am so passionate about marketing”… really? Do people really love office jobs?
The end of your post particularly resonates, and reminds me of the slightly snarky commercial from a decade or two back featuring kids as aspiring professionals. In voice-over, one says with a satisfied smile, "I wanna grow up to be a middle manager!" or similar - in reality of course nobody does that. (-Looks around nervously-) Right?! FF to now, who ARE these people who live for office work, anyway?! And, do they go insane during time off? -Actually I have coworkers who I think might,...
LinkedIn is one of the most toxic echo chambers on the internet. People who take corporate bullshit culture home with them and pontificate about it in their personal time.
I'm not young anymore (43) and I've been in white collar work most of my career. I can't even count how many times I've been told "just put in more work now and you'll get that promotion soon" "show you're part of the team and the company will take care of you" etc. and other similar corporate talking points to make me stay later, produce more, or give up my weekends. As manager, I've even parroted some of those lines a couple times to my direct reports. I've realized that loyalty and commitment is not a two way street. Companies want you to give them everything all the time and be loyal to them, but they are only invested in you till the next downturn and would get rid of anyone who wasn't "exceeding" expectations. Which is crazy, because should we all be meeting the expectations they have for us, they definitely don't exceed my compensation expectations every year. So yes, I work hard and I am a team player, but I'm also looking for the next promotion outside the company and I'm ready to leave at a moments notice if a better opportunity came along. I no longer put any stock in the company taking care of me, I will take care of myself.
I have learned that the company will suck you dry and spit you out. I was a loyal, hard working employee for years. I always went above and beyond. That didn't stop the company from screwing me over and cancelling a policy that removed a benefit worth between $150 - $200K. I said goodbye and now 5 different people do the work I used to do. They all miss me. I don't miss them at all.
The number of times I have seen this (as a lawyer) is ridiculous. In so many cases, you can see it coming a million miles away but whoever decides to select Managers must be a monkey because they cannot see beyond the immediate. That is pretty much the definition of immature and idiotic. I have a handful, a small one, of cases where the Management acted professionally but more often professionalism wasn't part of their mindset to begin with. So how did they get into these positions? Where I live, cronyism is rampant and openly practiced, but I actually find myself, at that critical moment before I lay my eyes on the company's response and pray 'Don't let them be that stupid. How can they not see one foot ahead of the next?' Beats me. Best of luck to you Sheeby.
Open your eyes and look at he top, what do you see very few if any people of color, not there aren't any capable of doing the job or even better but for the color of their skin.
Open your eyes and look at every other aspect of society where blacks underperform whites and Asians by wide margins. It takes decades of high performance to reach executive status usually. You're not going to get there in meaningful numbers when your demographic eats horrible food, is exposed to dangerous environmental hazards, is addicted to drugs, has horrible violence problems, is incarcerated at wildly disproportional rates, has lower average IQs by a wide margin, and turns to riots and victim status instead of hard work such as ever Asian immigrants have done.
There may be systemic issues, but they certainly aren't at the tops of companies who have made it their mission to racially discriminate to hire for diversity ahead of more qualified white males. Look to childhoods and broken homes to see why blacks aren't CEOs.
If you look at the people running Chinese companies at the top the majority are going to be Chinese. America was historically a majority white country so why would you not expect the leadership to be a majority white? Over time minorities will naturally achieve more and more positions of power and they are completely capable of doing it without assistance. To imply it should be done for them is an insult to their abilities and the most vicious form of racism.
It's definitely time to start publicly calling out gender and race-based attacks on white men. I find it disturbing that modern times seem to have identified white men as "the problem". It's scarily similar to how the Nazis identified jewish people as "the problem". The only acceptable response is to push back hard.
Agreed. The character traits associated with the stereotype are the issue, not that race/gender/social class itself. (I don't know if I'm saying this right, but please know I'm trying to say that in a respectful way.)
Even though the comment comes off as racist, I get where you're coming from. So, look for a non-profit or minority-owned business. Or start something yourself. Take action.
I get your comment, but to blame all white males is, at best, ignorant. Better: Some of us just don't feel like working 24/7 to make the rich richer, and the powerful more powerful. It isn't right or good or fair or moral.
Oh okay gocha. So like the people under you who are working in less favorable conditions for lower pay, while you get the majority of the benefits for delegating from your nice comfy office? Makes sense.
We're all the same people no matter where you zoom in on the corporate ladder. There are always people above and people below unless you're every level new hire or CEO.
My comment is just stating that I'll do the minimum required of my position and the remaining effort I have to give will go into my own personal endeavors.
Another harmful effect of careerism is that it is used as a carrot to keep people in bad work environments with toxic supervisors or cultures. These environments perpetuate this myth that you have to stay in this particular job because it is a necessary step in your career, and to make a move would be detrimental and "set you back." You also see this come up with recruiters and hiring managers who look down on candidates for moving in and out of jobs every year or year and a half. I work with recruiters and this always comes up on panels, and they tend to have a bias that favors the manager and is skeptical of the worker. It's a really unhealthy power dynamic.
We live in a new Gilded Age. The gap between rich and poor is the widest it's ever been, and we should be treating Bezos and Musk not as capitalist paragons but as the robber barons they truly are.
Okay, so Bozos created something that everyone uses and has completely innovated an industry. You get whatever you want delivered to you the next day. He's created more jobs, not just the people that work in amazon, but all the construction contractors and heavily stimulated local economies, and you want to see that as a bad thing. Okay tear down Amazon and see how many people become unemployed. Very smart.
I never said what he created was a bad thing and to tear it down, you're misinterpreting the point. I'm saying hoarded wealth by few individuals is very bad, and we should start by raising taxes on the ultrawealthy for a start.
They wealthy have the resources to invest in new ideas and products that create more wealth. Taking away more of there wealth only hurts everyone else in the long run.
Bezos and Musk do not have their wealth sitting in offshore accounts, they have nearly all of their wealth in the controlling interest of their company's stock which has soared under their leadership. You can't tax stock positions until they are sold.
Yes, you make a great point. This is why a mix of raising capital gains taxes and reforming the estate tax would be the only meaningful way of raising them.
Not really. The gap between Bezos is technically great, but if this were 300 years ago, he'd have 1000 servants and the power to chop people's heads off. His power would be wasted focusing only on himself. Bezos just controls Amazon, which by the way, makes no profits, and the surpluses go to consumers and suppliers and employees. That's a completely different kind of wealth. Which he will mostly give away.
Your type bashes Boomers as if all of them are exactly the same. There is much variety among them. Gross generalizations are often the talk of the ignorant, angry, fearful, and/or inexperienced. There is an insightful documentary that examines each generation in this country and what social influences swayed their opinions and life styles. In other words, who you are (to a great extent) is governed by your place in linear time/history. Thus, have compassion for others and then CHOOSE to build something for yourself instead of tearing down others. Envision how you want the world to be. Move toward something. Don't run back to the past with a club and beat on people. Re-imagine your life and how you want it to be.
Suppose it wasn't for the corporatist status quo bootlickers boomers. You wouldn't be where you are today! You were just typing on a corporatist status quo bootlickers Boomers Idea! Would you mind working somewhere other than McDonald's before you comment on that? You made an ass hat out of yourself to me today! Enjoy knowing you are not even close to being Troll status. You are still a douchebag level. Got to love the retards in the room! It didn't take a moment to have a thought-out, educated, Statement! These children these days just shoot from the hip
not all boomers are corporatist bootlickers just like not all millennials are lazy and unwilling to work. I think this article touched on some relevant issues. What is a "career"? Would it kill some of these billion dollar corporations to pay their workers more money? I have worked for managers who cared more about the optics of their department than actually accomplishing relevant tasks and it was draining. The idea that killing yourself for a company and putting your life and family second is a losing proposition and more people have had time to think about this during the pandemic. I was fortunate enough to be able to keep my job and work remotely to which I am grateful. But at the end of the day (or 40 years) if all you have to show is that you worked 80 hour work weeks and your family doesn't know you and you still need to work a part time job to survive was it worth shaming all of those people who wanted better work life balance?
That's what makes America so great, you can quit and go work somewhere else or start your own greedy conglomerate and then give all your money way to your employees.
What do you mean "give all your money way to your employees"? I've never heard of any boss "giving away money" to employees for any reason. The way employment works is an exchange - people perform services and receive payment. If you receive something from someone, you're just paying for what you got, not "giving" them something. I didn't just "give" the grocery store money - I was paying for food. I didn't just "give" the plumber money - I was paying for his services. I got things in those exchanges, and these CEOs are acting like they're just giving something for nothing, when they've actually got a lot - years of people's services and sacrifices for them. Just paying for what you got isn't any kind of "giving." It's just a purchase of services.
I am actually Gen X, it would be nice if we could discuss this without belittling each other. I respect the fact the Millennials are frustrated. I am as well being stuck in the so called "latchkey or sandwich" generation.
This article opens up an interesting and somewhat predictable dialog, but suffers by using one single example as a bellwether for all of corporate life, uses unnecessary vulgarities, uses pigeon holing terms like white males, and incendiary comments like 'burn the system down'. A few thoughts from someone who has worked 45 years for companies big, small, and my own: 1. No one is ever promised a rose garden, and there are speed bumps in life. As a white male I have been passed over by females lesser qualified than myself because the company had to fix the optics about female employees, I have been fired by idiot owners, and corporate changes downgraded my current position, but each time I picked myself up and moved on. I did not complain about sexism or racism or whatever. Along the way my wife and I saved a lot, did not go on expensive trips or own fancy cars, and now we own a nice home in a rural area, have no debts, and can pay it forward by ensuring our grandsons' future education. 2. The only one who will help your career is you. Forget HR or the endless self-help industry. 3. Annual reviews are a total waste of time. I decided when it was time to move on, and I found the new job or new company. 4. Discover your passions, and find jobs/careers that play to that. If you don't like what you do it will show every day and color your daily existence which is not healthy. 5. If you decide to get into a 'soft' field that doesn't require a lot of skill like retail, food service, etc., don't expect that it will provide you security and a good salary. Get an education from a good school in a profession like medicine, science, engineering, accounting, teaching. You will have to work hard for the education, but you will have a life long demand for your skills. 6. Universal income, aka socialism, is a great idea that has never worked. In Russia the heads of the party all had dachas on the Red Sea, not exactly equal to others living in squalid drab small apartments in Moscow. In Cuba everyone remains poor and they drive cars from the 1950s. Yes they have universal medical care but where do people go for a tricky operation-Cuba or the US? The people with money that you want to tax even more to realize your universal income have complete mobility and will leave: witness the many leaving CA for TX and other states. 7. Yes there are many bad managers our there. Only maybe 3 or 4 managers in my 45 years actually understood how to do it right, despite endless books on the subject. In my view, the problem is ego and hubris once a person becomes a manager, or in some cases inability to lead the charge to a larger vision. 8. Finally, if you think business is easy, go start a business, take the risks, invest your own money, find out everything is not red and green, and experience the endless compromises you have to make. That is why entrepreneurs sometimes make a lot of money-they took the risks that you won't. 9. The biggest problem in the US today is economic. We ceded middle class jobs in manufacturing decades ago to China, and the result is mainly service jobs are left which don't pay well and are less secure. Meanwhile all of our $ go to Asia, with the result that they are buying up businesses, land, homes, and have control over our economy. No politician on either side understands this. Meanwhile federal and state governments keep spending money that they don't have. 10. Be a life long learner, not a life long whiner. And yes, listen to us senior citizens. We have learned more than you have about life. Never mind that you can download and fiddle with your latest phone app faster than us-what is important, as this article shows, is PEOPLE. Good luck in life.
AMEN Yes, there are those of us who have worked more than a half century of our lives, starting out in low paying, no benefits jobs. I started at 15 in an orchard. but it was money, my own, earned by me, and I learned it's value. And NO, there isn't always "fun money". There's bills to pay, mouths to feed. We all want the nice roads, fire and police protection, water and sewer available, and of course the all important cell phone now. Then there were the Pres Carter years, "stagflation", and the economy fell apart. I washed cars at a body shop, really romantic job there for sure, but it put food on the table, and from there I purchased my first spray gun and learned to paint cars. There are those times, as we grow, learn to expect and prepare for the tough times that will always surely come, that it's not about "fun money", it's about sacrifice, learning priorities, being responsible. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and do what it takes instead of whining that the world isn't fair enough. Well sunshine, no one guarantees anyone happiness and success, it's no one's job to be your clown to entertain you or beneficiary to insure you get to live the life you'd like to become adjusted to. We are the most fortunate people here, opportunity abounds everywhere. We have a magnificent large country that we're allowed to move about in freely, if there's no suitable employment where you are, move. My wife and I did at least a half dozen times, experiencing new places and people along the way, making lifelong friends. If all you desire to do in this country is enough to survive, yes, you can do that, there are plenty of safety nets to help you live your chosen bottom rung existence. If you want more, you have to increase your worth to the overall society. You work harder, smarter, improve your education, you become more valuable, you earn more, you live better. It's not rocket science people, you reap what you sow. I came from a poor coal mining region, we didn't even have indoor plumbing yet when I was a kid. There's no excuses, no matter what your political leanings there's just no better place in the world for ANYONE to live a satisfying life, as long as you're willing to put forth some kind of reasonable effort. You don't have to be rich, surely I'm not, but you can be comfortable. It just takes an effort to get there, and why shouldn't it? There ain't nothing in this life for free, somebody pays, never forget that. So you decide which side of the tracks you're satisfied to live on. You're either going to be satisfied doing as little as possible and relying on being subsidized by societies scraps or you're going to put in more effort and be one of those who are generating the scraps for you to inherit. That's life, always has been, always will be. There's not a civilized social structure on the planet that doesn't have those who have more than others.
Excellent comment, BUT it doesn't address what the article is all about -- companies that insist that, in order to have a "career," their employees should give them their unquestioned loyalty and 24/7 access to their lives. I don't advocate the overthrow of anything; I simply feel that there's a better way to work.
I'm 67 years old and I've been retired since 2014. These past few years have been the best ones of my life. Like the younger people mentioned in this story, I too, have struggled with the meaning of work and to have some sort of work-life balance throughout my "career." I lived in a different time, when housing was less expensive and I came out of graduate school without debt, so I was able to eek out a living by trying to work part-time and taking time off between jobs to get a break. The Gen X and Gen Zers have my sympathy. I hope that one silver lining of the pandemic is a true grass-roots labor movement of people who refuse to sell their souls to corporate America. I will leave you with this quote by Lily Tomlin that has inspired me throughout the years, "The problem with the rat race is that, even if you win, you're still a rat."
Getting together to demand significant increases in pay is also just as crucial. The income inequity in our society is unsustainable and workers paid as little as the lower economic class of laborers have no power compared to the wealthy.
This is why we are becoming the softest country in the world and a laughing stock. This much complaint over the possibility of working in an air-conditioned office every day? across the world people are dealing with real problems; fleeing for their life's. Now us, facing no true adversity, are creating issues, acting entitled to everything and working for none of it. You know how big corporations are built? Through an amount of work that is unfathomable to you. The amount of work that it takes to build a successful company cannot be quantified. That's why you aren't successful. Instead of being motivated and working harder to change your station in life, you are stamping your feet and throwing a tantrum. It is mind boggling the amount of backwards thinking and the ability to victimize yourself on this thread. Grow up and make something of yourself, you aren't entitled to anything deadbeat.
Lots of things in life are an 'unfathomable amount of work' -- building a corporation as you say, but also: mastering an instrument, having amazing relationships, creative writing, mastering oneself, avoiding comment sections, etc. The critics are not saying that building a corporation isn't fine, only that is no more valuable than other life goals.
What you say is true. Only problem is you can't do an "unfathomable amount of work" on all those things at the same time. Mastering oneself may be satisfying, but it won't pay the bills or provide for a comfortable retirement--neither of which are things to which you are entitled no matter how mastered you are of yourself.
But some people realize that there is value in more than one thing on this earth. I think it's just to ask for good relationships and a comfortable retirement. I personally would never value my job so much that I would be willing to give up my marriage for it (which many people have done), but I don't think that makes me unworthy of financial stability.
True. Many people work very hard and do wonderful things that others enjoy -- and the financial reward is oftentimes missing. Our societal values are screwed up. And, yes, avoiding the comments section is quite difficult.
Also, there is currently 10.3 million job openings with 6 million people looking for work. that is a surplus of 4 million jobs. There is no excuse in this environment for anyone to work for a company that does not have the benefits they want.
Right, but Marcus, many of those jobs do not allow people to earn enough to pay for their rent and basic goods and services, let alone save for things like a car or a down payment on a house. What people really want is a good job--one that pays enough for people to afford basic needs plus savings and a "fun budget." Otherwise, what is the point? You work until you die, that's what. And that is a miserable existence.
Also yeah, this article is really talking about a specific subset of office work/white collar work. Some of that work is also really exploitative, especially if you are not a higher-up in the company. But many of these open jobs are in the service industry, where low pay and long hours (But also--never offering enough hours to force you to take on a second job) is industry standard.
Well if you are an unskilled worker, then the only job you are qualified for is an entry level job. Entry level jobs are not hard so why should you be disproportionately rewarded? If you want a good job, then you need a skill at that you better at than most people. The amount you make and that is in your savings account is a literal number for how useful you are to society. If you aren't very useful, then you won't have much. If you are incredibly useful, then you will have an incredible amount. What is wrong with this model? It encourages you to be better and more creative. This is how new ideas and innovation are born. It incentivizes you to be better.
Correct, neither are police officers and paramedics. I have been talking about private sector. Not going to argue about government positions such as these. These people do deserve more I agree 100%.
That is an incredibly naive worldview born of ignorance. Are you telling me that Donald Trump is useful to society despite inheriting all his money from his father? Of course not. Your "model", if such a ramshackle excuse for a baseless assertion, is false. It fails to account for the fact that people at the top don't want people at the bottom to "steal" their "finite resource" by legitimately earning it. Do you know what happens if you are incredibly useful? You stay in your position until you fall ill, die, or are made "redundant". You get raises measured in cents until some new, young, fresh-faced candidate is willing to work your job at base pay, and suddenly, you're "no longer needed." Or you slip and fall on the job and shatter your hip, go to get your worker's comp, and suddenly, when you go to come back after your convalescence, it turns out your position is now redundant and the company no longer needs you and you're stuck footing the bill for the hip replacement you needed.
But don't worry! I'm sure you won't regret this stance in 30 years when suddenly it's *you* out of a job and watching your "literal number for how useful you are to society" dwindle and wither and die.
I'll take a Donald Trump who inherited a few million and turned into billions than a Clinton or Obama who went into politics with nothing and managed to parlay their connections into hundreds of millions of dollars by selling access to the US Treasury.
His father built a fortune for his family, so his kids would never have to work again. That is a very impressive accomplishment and Donald Trump won the lottery when he was born into that family. He got lucky and us not as much. You can be bitter about people having more and feel sorry for yourself, or you can amass a fortune for your family. If it was easy everyone would be rich. Its not easy, so don't expect it to be. If you work somewhere for years and don't advance, no one else is responsible for your station in life except yourself. If you took no risks, you will get no rewards. If you get a raise in cents, then your skills and usefulness are nearly the same as the were the year before. If you stay in the same position in life for any extended period of time then do some self-reflection. The cream will always rise to the top.
In a truly civilized society, ALL people, who are able, should be able to find meaningful work. All people should be appreciated for their efforts and treated with respect. The overall problem is more about hierarchy and the pretense that some people are more worthy and better than others. Our system is broken. It is barbaric in many ways. We are living in the 21st Century, not in the last century, or 2000 years ago. Humans are supposed to get better with time, to become more enlightened, to evolve -- not to remain stunted and kept in the past, and beholden to the status quo. Our spiritual teachings remind us to become more heart-centered, to become more compassionate, to move toward "godliness," and to recognize that we are all in this together and that all are essential to the whole of existence. Work is destined to change because humans are changing. What we see now are the growing pains of our continued evolution. To resist the inevitable is futile.
No, not everyone is essential and neither is their job. This was made PAINFULLY obvious during quarantine. Many people work jobs that are not essential to keep the world turning. It may be uncomfortable but it's a fact of life. Hierarchies are not bad either. I do not want people in charge that would perform worse than the people below them. So they are very necessary and good.
Do you not know the basis of a market economy? It seems like those 4 million job opportunities need to step up to the competition and offer something better to attract more employees because surprise surprise still abiding by 19th century ideological protestant work ethic that you like masturbating your ego over seems to be going out of style (and thank goodness for that). Though I'm sure you having your basic dignity and humanity stripped from you working hard construction jobs as though you were a lifeless automaton means others should face the same because 'that's what a strong and stoic person does!', and I'm sure it also is all the fault of the government's giving 'handouts' and giving people the decision to temporarily have a shred of decency and leverage when it comes to picking dehumanizing jobs, and not a result of a complex function of various systems acting the way they are and making things the way they are.
13 years. It wasn't just a company, it was the industry. I can always tell when someone didn't pay their debt, went to college, and now has a "real job" without ever having to actually work a day in their life, but still complains about how rough they got it. "No benefits!? Exploitation!" You people are pathetic.
I put myself through college by sweating through steal toed leather work boots in both 110 heat and -15 with windchill. Next time you go over a bridge you should think of me never working a day in my life.
Yes, I worked bridge construction to put myself through school. I've worked 17 hour days in both extreme heat and cold. I worked there for three years. Out of the Jobs I had it was both the hardest and the most rewarding
I think it's worth pointing out that you only stayed there for three years. Even you, who is going on and on about working hard didn't stay at a miserable job for long. That is exactly what the article is about. Not people who refuse to work, but people who refuse to work in poor conditions for their entire working life.
Because I put myself through school..... and after my degree I still worked for months talking myself into using my degree. Hard work with your hands, building a structure that millions of people drive on is incredibly rewarding.
Understood and agreed; however, by nature of our structure, SOMEONE has to keep doing those tough jobs. It wouldn't work if everyone had an office job. Who farms? Who does construction? I think you understand what I'm trying to say. I too put myself through school and am starting up the business ladder, but that doesn't mean the people who stayed where I came from shouldn't be treated better.
The minimum wage for all highway workers is different. The counties I worked in were $14 and $17.58 an hour minimum wage for no experience. Construction companies are always hiring people as well. At 55 hours a week I was making the same as I do now with a desk job and a degree. Despite the hard work we were still rewarded well. That's why those tough jobs will stay around. I never felt mistreated in my years there because everyone showed up to do the work and reap the benefits. There was plenty of people on my crew that had no high school diploma, been to jail, and still making $25 an hour before overtime.
Yes, there will always be people that have it better than others, I will not argue that because you are correct. If that is wrong or not is where I differ.
The Koch brothers - some of the riches men alive - literally hold meetings at midnight's on weekends because of the amount they work. Their reward for this ridiculous amount of work is a ridiculous amount of wealth. They fathom it because they do more work than every other person at their company.
Yes, that is your Job as a manager or CEO. Delegating tasks to the best person is the difference between a successful company and one that is not. I'm glad you are understanding what people above you do.
These comments clearly illustrate that there are lots of angry, embittered, likely white, likely male humans who find the arguments in this article insulting. And they should feel insulted. After all, they have spent the majority of the waking hours of their adult lives doing something they did not particularly want to do, and are irate at the thought that maybe, possibly, others may not want, and, GASP, eventually may not even NEED, to do the same as they. Because, perhaps, they look at the silver in their own hair, the lines around their eyes, growing deeper down their cheeks, feel a pain in their lower back that wasn't there the day before, and wonder, quietly, if they've been had.
We only get one of these life things. Nobody asks if they were productive enough, or a good enough employee, when they find they're on their deathbed. The only question that really matters is, "Did I enjoy that? Did I have a good time?"
What a waste, if the answer is no. I can think of few things more wasteful than that.
Extremely narrow view. Careers develop skills and know-how, also, there's the assumption of responsibility at higher levels.
If we as a society want 'stuff' - including medicine, healthcare, security, roads, bridges, airplanes, cars, entertainment etc. then people need to 'do that work'.
Thankfully, most people develop a sense of satisfaction and fulfillment out of doing useful things.
This perennially selfish view that 'we work for no reason' is ridiculous.
Everything that we have depends on a vast system of complex interactions, jobs, skillsets and dedicated people. That's why 'people do it'.
If everyone wants to be 'golf pros' and 'youtubers' then good luck with that colonoscopy that nobody wants to perform 'because boring'.
Well, not everybody wants to be youtubers. Why can't somebody enjoy being a doctor? Or doing colonoscopies and then, toddling off to bed. Not everybody shares your taste. Societies will find the people who want to do those jobs. There will be pay differentials.
But the thing I find disgusting is the idea that an employer has the unlimited access to an individual's time beyond their contractual "hours". What's next? Does the employer get to determine who that employee gets to date? To marry? That's invasive. Let's bring back the culture where we have boundaries.
I mean, if it's an emergency, of course, we'll have some all hands on board overtime. But why does the employer get anytime outside of an emergency. I mean, wouldn't it be strange to be on call during your honeymoon?
Of course every society needs worker drones. Most people are drones. No offense to doctors.. but they're just drones. They aren't any more special than my sanitation workers because... well, garbage smells. I view sanitation workers as very important people for a functioning society. (That and the fact that they are ensuring less disease in society.)
Most people will work. But don't expect everybody to worship their job or anything. I know doctors who say "Hey, it's just a job". They don't give a damn about the glorious nature of medicine. It's just a job to pay the bills. (Seriously, that's the truth. It's not some grand romance that you and your kind think it is. I mean, if we want romance, it's scientists and artists and real innovators. It's not butter and bread professions like GI specialist doctors.)
Oh.. and I don't care for the implicit sneer job at youtubers. They made a career and some of them make plenty of money doing this. Same for golf pros. The ones who are successful should be applauded because they didn't follow all the worker drones and they made it work. As for the rest, 99 % are losers who would be losers in any other field as well. You're a loser. I'm a loser. Most of us are in that 99%. If you don't believe me, whip out your nobel prize in whatever discipline you are in. Show me your gold stars. Your little prizes for outstanding person of the year. See what I mean? Most people are gloriously ordinary and there's nothing wrong with that. We ordinary 99% are the ones who hold the weight of the world so that the 1% can shine.
Don't forget the ones that like to go to Walmart and shake their ass for tick tock they're gonna be big celebrities one day so they've got to be prepared they can't go to work they always have got to be ready then when they become celebrities then you see them on some talk show on TV talking about how bad their life is and how it's a downward spiral and how they have to take drugs and ever since they became a celebrity their life is so horrible they have to work all the time and make appearances and nobody knows how hard it is to be them boo hoo
see my comment above you! these people have been had and that's why theyre so bitter. those of us who quit the game, or never even bothered to play it, are the targets of their rage. too bad.
I'm just glad you felt it necessary to point our the possible gender and race of the commenters. Galaxy Brains indeed.
Live freely, live the life you want, yes. Just don't whine about how the government, corporations, "the system", etc. aren't supporting you. Freedom and irresponsibility are fundamentally incompatible.
The government doesn't need to support us, and any politician saying so should be treated with great skepticism, but it does need to get out of our ways.
Lol BLM supporters are getting upset
well the fact is we're in a fake economy with COVID; free money and no-evictions (for not paying rent) can't last forever, and when it dries up people are going to realize that you DO need to 'earn your keep', just like every animal in the world. The difference is instead of eat or be eaten, you can just work at an air conditioned office. wah.
Fred, I'm so confused by your comment. Do you just think that people are choosing not to work and in turn not paying their rent? Why do you believe that? The eviction moratoriums started because people were laid off or furloughed from their jobs and could not pay their rent. The fact is, most people are back to work, but many had to take jobs with a significant pay cut. Or they were hired back but with fewer hours. Or maybe they went back to school (and are earning no wages or maybe part-time wages). Already many people in the United States pay almost half of their monthly wages toward rent. If you are earning no wages, or earning half of what you used to, how can we expect people to keep up with their rental payments? Oh, and by the way, we are also asking them not only to start paying rent again, but to pay their back rent that went unpaid during the eviction moratorium. How were they supposed to save to pay their back rent when they couldn't even afford to pay the monthly rent? Perhaps that money went to groceries, or paying the electricity bill.
We have to remember that people are people. Humans with lives and families. Have a little compassion.
Yeah God forbid you throughout your life you've worked hard to buy property to rent to people so you can have an income and now you've got deadbeats in there for the last year they haven't had to pay rent and they shouldn't have to pay rent. The pasted owed rent should all just be forgiven and forgotten meanwhile the poor guy who owns the building still has to pay for insurance, mortgage and all the maintenance and upkeep of the property.. what a sorry Society we've become where the people that do the least in society have become the ones with the most power to wheeled simply by tweeting and twittering and airing their grievances and anger on the internet and the poor guy who's worked his whole life to do and accomplish is frowned upon and look at that as a person who's just trying to rob and cheat people because he wants his fucking rent
Right? Like, seeing donald trump screaming his rage on the internet is just sad, but he had so much power for so long despite saying little to nothing of value. He didn't even pay to live in the whitehouse, and I bet he got free stuff. Got a loan from his daddy of a million dollars, and at one point managed to bankrupt a casino. I can't believe people like him are allowed to thrive in this environment while people who do actual work are left on the side to starve and not get paid what they worked for, it's just disgusting. Can you imagine going through 18 years of schooling and learning just to get told you haven't done enough and be denied a living wage? I sure can't. Well put.
You thought the homeless was bad before, wait for all the evictions to kick in.
These people proudly believe in social Darwinism and that some lives are more valuable than others.
“All animals are created equal but some animals are more equal than others” - George orwell, animal farm
I feel like this article is missing an important point that maybe a lot of us are missing as well. We don't just work to make an "income" in order to participate in society. And our boss, ourself and shareholders aren't the only people that are benefiting from our work. Work, if done right, should be an act of service for the community in which we live. Our work is meaningful, not just because it helps you to pay the bills, but because it is a means in which we can make other peoples lives a little better. That is the essence of capitalism as I see it.
I am so sick of listening to employers complain about younger employees being non-invested or lacking work ethic. And while your article implies that a "career" is now considered by young employees to be less than appealing, because of the traditional demands of a "career" mentality, there is a solution for employers. There is a HUGE pool of people employers could hire who want to work, know what a commitment to a career requires, are used to the kinds of demands employers have historically imposed on employees, generally don't have family demands that interfere with job commitment, and in today's world are generally very healthy. That's right, retired workers who still want to work. So, until employers are willing to give up their outdated concepts about "older" workers and do away with the rampant ageism in HR they can shut the hell up about lacking a dependable workforce.
But they're not pretty, androgynous fairies who fit well into a PR campaign about inclusiveness. Won't happen. Old people don't look woke enough.
Older people can't find work because of age discrimination laws. It protects incumbents within an organization after age 40, but it makes getting a new job terribly hard if you're middle aged and looking.
It's because older workers are savvy. They've had half their adult lives in the working world. They are also going to pore over carefully the materials they get in HR and any state and federal age discrimination protections.
Older workers know their rights and are not afraid to use them.
This assumes you can get in the door for an interview in the first place. The reality is that HR departments have moved to obtaining resumes through email applications, or employment websites, because the algorithms that screen the resumes have been programed to be able to weed out older applicants, based on subtle clues, and it is virtually impossible to prove they are discriminating and skirting those state and federal laws.
True. I love the application process where they ask you a million what-if questions. These are scanned by a computer for certain words and if you don't use them, you are out.
How does one look woke? Must I dye my hair or give it that impossible curl in the front?
I guess wear something you bought from Free People or a T-shirt with some inane phrase or cause on it.
No kidding. Well if that's their criteria, good luck to them and they still need to stop complaining. No skin off of my nose. I don't have to work I want to work, and, I'm not the one who has to explain to a board of directors why we're behind schedule and not accepting any new projects. I'm sure the board is also woke and will be ok with that thinking.
You get my Vote!!!!!! Very well put. Thank you. BTW this exists in many professional areas people think are 'safe' like medicine and law. My specialist returned from maternity leave and she and I were talking about the value we have for our work (I am a lawyer) I emphasise OUR work. But, she said, if you are human and life happens or you have children etc it very quickly transforms you into zero value again. She said, the basic skills and ability never goes away and I added that we would be keeping up with developments in our areas of specialisation anyway since we chose to do all this work because it is OURS and it energised us. I am a tad older than she is but, I know, that I can handle a case and case management in my sleep in half or less the time it takes less experienced barristers. Fortunately we are classed as self-employed but when I decided to give it a break for a bit and transfer the skills into other areas I found the age block was huge. To me, I am interested in the whole package, which means I will accept far less money if the work I do is the right fit for me. But the assumption is either that we will expect too much money or that we will take over the place.... filled with kids/people my son's age. Management should be about team building, collaboration, camaraderie and thus... energised staff. It's horizontal at its best, respecting the value that each member brings because without them we couldn't get this done. I did some editing work at a magazine and the graphic designer, now a great friend, fascinated me with how similar and yet how different his work process was from mine. But I know I am no replacement for him, nor he for me. But what we all created together was of true value. Sadly we had a crazed Project Manager who was retiring soon and dug her heels in at the suggestion of anything involving actual effort. She sat locked in her office on the phone to her husband or emailing her friends. It demoralised so many truly skilled and energetic people. I promised I would leave before that affected me and I did leave but it did damage to my morale as well. Morale is priority number one, right? Oh well, I could go on forever. This was a great article. And comments. Thanks.
I'm a professional geologist and spent 30 years as an independent environmental consultant planning, managing, and doing the field work to assess and remediate hazardous and contaminated sites. After retiring I missed the work so much I wanted back in but didn't want to start up a business again. So I applied to numerous openings, with consulting firms, that I was more than qualified for including entry level jobs. No dice. The thing they don't get is, since I don't have to work and have other income sources like SS, I don't need to be paid a salary reflective of my experience. They would be getting a senior level professional at a junior level salary. So the salary concern is short sighted. Concerns we won't be flexible or able to collaborate with younger employees are unfounded. How could we have maintained years of successful employment if we had not learned to be flexible? And, in all those years do they think we never had to collaborate with younger colleagues? It's their loss but they can't complain about lack of staff if they continue their present hiring practices. I agree, this article opens a discussion that needs to be discussed and exposed to more people if we want to change misguided perceptions about a capable and available senior work force.
So much in this post....
By way of explanation, I am 62 and retired. I started life in the corporate world (banking) and was doing well (promotions given, responsibilities added, people managed) and I bailed at 28. My last words to my boss were, "fuck you Betty, I quit". I realized the corporate life and all the ethical compromises I was being forced to make were just not for me. I have never been good at compartmentalizing my life.
I found various ways to participate in the economy that were not "careerist" and have lived quite a happy, comfortable existence.
I recognize the pressures are different now in the 2020's than they were in the 1980's but all the nonsense spewed in the article you referenced was being spewed back then too. Charley, I think the biggest question younger people should ask themselves when trying to think this through is how they will look back on the life they lived. I know that is a difficult thing to do in younger years but figuring out how to order your values and priorities matters.
As Bernaud Malamaud wrote in The Natural, “We have two lives... the life we learn with and the life we live after that."
Mary, I appreciate your perspective! I would be really interested to hear what other ways you participated in work and still lived contently. I am looking for other options for my own life, but coming up short.
Sarah, I started bartending when I left banking. It was ridiculously lucrative and not in anyway professional (like it is now). I eventually managed and then owned a couple small restaurants. It is around the clock responsibility, not everybody lkes that. I also spent a good chunk of time as an asst. golf pro at a country club, which is mostly a sales clerk that gives golf lessons. I was lucky to be doing that during the rise of Tiger Woods. Being a female was an advantage because women want to be taught by a woman, parents prefer a woman to teach their young kids, and old guys prefer being taught by a woman so I was crazy busy. I spent time dabbling in the trades too, light construction and painting. I really enjoy working with my hands. I think the key is to be open to that which might be a bit off the well trod path.
Hope that helps.
Smart and enlightened you are. You aren't led by your ego.
I have done the same. It is called independence. Isn't it great?. I taught it to my children, too.
It's almost as if capitalism is exploitative by design and consuming all of people's most productive years in order to enrich the bosses and shareholders while workers get screwed at every turn is the point. It's almost as if capitalism isn't really about lifting all boats with a rising tide, but is actually about extracting labor value from working people to make the rich richer. I feel like someone maybe wrote a book about this? Richard Marx or something?
Sigh. That was supposed to be a joke...
Rubbish. The standard of living of working people has increased monumentally over the last 200 years and continues to this day. 30 years ago cars were kind of crap, people took far fewer flights (working class did not fly for vacation), there was no internet, not access to information, open-heart surgery could kill you whereas now it's an outpatient thing etc. etc.. Most people today couldn't hack a normal life just 80 years ago.
While capital is accumulating in the 0.1%, that's actually a small portion of the population, and they tend to reinvest the vast majority of their fortunes. Bill Gates could live in a sprawling castle with 100's of servants, footman at every meal, but he doesn't.
People have more choice and wealth now than ever before in history by a longshot.
LOL!!!! This will be lost on many.... don't think for a second I didn't pick up on the subtle sarcasm said the tree hugging leftist. I like Richard Marx too, bwaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha!!!!
Karl Marx, of course, who inspired the Communist system which has led to robust economies around the world, Cuba's for example.
Cuba is inspired by Stalinism which developed from Leninism, which broke from Marxism on many key points both in theory and in practice. Marx, unlike Stalin, rejected the idea of socialism in one country. It can have nasty consequences like having capitalist countries try to choke the life out of your country in transition to socialism so that people like you can try to claim that socialism doesn't work. Also Cuba isn't and has never been communist. Communism describes a stateless society where people contribute labor on the basis of ability and resources are distributed on the basis of need. Communism was the END GOAL for Castro's Cuba, not ever a description of its status quo. Describing Cuba under Castro as communist is a bit like looking at a bowl of batter and saying it's a testament to cake not being a good dessert. I any case, you don't have the be a Marxist (I'm not one) to recognize the incisiveness of his critique of capitalism, which was the focus of almost all of his writing.
"Real communism has never been tried before" Don't forget to play that card defending the most murderous ideology on the planet.
The whole "most murderous ideology" thing is such obvious bad faith argumentation. Deaths under capitalist regimes are dismissed as "oh, well, that was just a dictatorial government, not the economic system. Deaths under Stalinist regimes, on the other hand, are unambiguous indictments of all forms of socialism, even when the countries in question weren't anything close to socialist. And of course, deaths resulting from inequitable resource distribution and hording of food and medicine for corporate profit, pollution, brutal labor conditions, and wars for the profit of the fossil fuel and weapons industries -- well, we aren't even supposed to notice those...
"deaths resulting from inequitable resource distribution "
Oh just fuck off kid. You're a fucking moron.
Worse than a moron, he's a blood sucking filthy communist.
Only the communist would suggest that the death count doesn't matter while calling capital fascism in disguise. You people are mentally ill.
This isn't a remotely coherent sentence. Maybe try rewriting?
LOL. The most murderous ideology on the planet. You get that the frikkin AFRICAN SLAVE TRADE was a product of capitalism, right? But keep trying...
Um, not the slave trade was not. The slave trade was a product of European feudalism. Feudalism is not capitalism, and forcing people to work without receiving wages for that work is not capitalism. Moreover, aside from the evil of owning other humans, slavery is an incredibly inefficient system since one has to feed the slaves one owns even when there is no work for them and that slaves, receiving no pay, work just enough to avoid a beating. This inefficiency is, in large part, why the south lost the Civil War. This was all covered in high school history class. Did you sleep through that lesson?
Capitalism is just slavery with extra steps, bud.
I can sniff you people out a mile away. Too easy kid.
Ha! Not even close.
This is all so much hairsplitting. Socialism, communism, Stalinism, Leninism, Marxism, feudalism, mercantilism, fascism are all collectivist, centrally planned wealth re-distributionist systems and, as such, are bound to fail, to result in poverty and don't respect individual rights.
Socialism has NEVER worked anywhere it has been tried. You are using that threadbare excuse that Cuba failed because of the US embargo. The whole rest of the world hasn't embargoed Cuba. Cuba failed because of socialism, plain and simple.
The UK tried socialism, even though it was democratic socialism (They all still could vote for representatives in the UK.) but the country still ground to a halt in the late 1970s crumbling because of their socialistic system. Then Thatcher was elected and the markets were freed up and things got better. The Fabian Society caused a lot of misery by selling people on the lie that socialism would make their lives better, and now we have people trying to do the same here in the USA. The ills of government intervention in the markets and economy in the USA are being blamed on capitalism and we haven't been capitalistic for many decades in the USA. I wish we were, life would be a lot better, and we are missing out.
When Jeremy Corbyn was trying to become Prime Minister of the UK, he said he'd again nationalize industry if he became PM. He was alive the last time that was tried in the UK. It resulted in disaster then with decades of market distortions because of that coming home to roost in 1978. Dinosaur Corbyn has been in Parliament nearly that long, winning his seat in 1983. If he'd won as PM, and again nationalized industry, the result would have been another 1978 in the future.
"The UK tried socialism, even though it was democratic socialism (They all still could vote for representatives in the UK.)"
Nope. UK was a capitalist country with limited elements of social democracy, e.g. their healthcare system. Never anything close to socialist. Socialism doesn't mean a robust social safety net or state intervention in the economy. It means social ownership of the means of production. That never happened in the UK.
Oh, and while you're trying to assert that capitalism respects individual rights, care to explain the origin of private property rights and how the violent forced enclosure of the commons that marked the beginning of capitalism wasn't a violation of individual liberty and of the nonaggression principle that "libertarians" claim to love? Your ideology is built on a house of card and you only don't see it because you exist in an echo chamber.
Christ, does *anyone* really still believe Thatcher's bullshit? Horrifying.
I think you mean Karl Marx, not Richard Marx the singer. Unless Richard Marx is also a socialist philosopher.
It really wasn't apparent that that was a joke?
I knew it!!! I knew they were going to take this seriously and tear you a new one.
I can't figure out if they thought I was serious or are just trolling.
Richard marx is an 80's singer, you mean Karl Marx
Yes, that was the joke.
Adam, I love that you're responding to these comments. It's hilarious actually. Your original comments were obviously a joke.
That seemed apparent to me. Are these people just trolling me or did they actually think I was serious?
Sadly I think they are taking you seriously. It took me about 8 seconds to realize you were joking and some people just don't have that kind of time.
So I am an adult at the end of my career, but I am watching my kids who are just starting out after finishing college. One they can't get a job out of college - they get offered contracts for a year - good pay but no benefits , no time off and when the year is over the job is over. Companies rarely hire directly anymore. Even when the kids apply to job directly to a company, it is a temp agency that contracts them and it is a contract job. Took 3 years and 3 contracts for my oldest to get hired as an employee - first time she has had sick days or any benefits, all their friends are the same.... Then there is my experience - 17 years at a job, and the entire department was mass outsourced to India. Getting on in age having to worry about my age making employment difficult, and looking at new jobs, even ones in my old pay range, a lot fewer benefits, expensive healthcare.... I think the layoffs allow employers out of grandfathered benefits, and start over the jobs at the same pay with no benefits. And yes I put in tons of overtime at no pay since I was salaried, lots of weekends and holiday work.... and still laided off... loved my job, thought it was a career - but it is a lie, young people listened to their elders and know it is a lie before they even start working.
I am like you towards the end of my "career" but here's the thing we are just working hard. There is not now nor was there ever a safety net. This is America. Corporations run the congress and they just want cheap labor - hasn't changed since Reagan killed the unions for better or worse. I don't get why anyone thinks there ever was a safety net or cushy job.
That's because you've never worked a shitty job.
I have worked a lot of shitty jobs and have had a few "good" jobs. The one thing they all have in common is that you are an "at will" employee unless you belong to a union and can be laid off at any time. I feel like we give politicians too much credit for economic success and downturns when the large corporate lobbyists are constantly working to make sure that fair labor laws and employee protection is/are avoided at any cost.
Should an employee be able to quit at any time?
if you are at will it works both ways, they can fire you and you can quit. if you are under contract that is a different story.
I started at age 13 cleaning up construction sites and doing shit like drain tile. Then worked on fixing stuff and worked in the ghettos of DC and Baltimore. I have worked plenty of crappy jobs. Everybody is busting their hind end - the 1% who cares about them - we are the 99% where nothing is ever committed other than death and taxes.
You realize that most of the 1% worked their way there right? Its getting less dynamic, but overall, if you actually look with your eyes, you will see mostly self made people.
No they didn't most the 1% inherited considerable wealth then made more - the US right now has less mobility than its had since the gilded age - the average inheritance for the 1% is 5 million dollars, and keep in mind they don't get money until someone dies, but having family that is wealthy means better schools connections , options, money they can borrow from family.... the founders of facebook, microsoft, apple are always listed as self made millionaires, but they came from upper middle class to out right wealthy families that got them into Harvard... they could never of been self made if they'd come from a family of average wealth.
Ohhh. So starting with ANYTHING means you are not self made. Got it. 👌
You people are special.
Absolute bullshit. The 1% are products of generational wealth and luck. Work ethic has nothing to do with it.
Wrong.
What a hilariously stupid and completely unsupported comment to make. Hey maybe if you lick their boots enough you too can join the rich kids club lol. Any day now!
That's right
It's getting less dynamic because of government interference in our lives via laws, regulations and the tax code. I read stories about people that started businesses decades ago and am shocked how easy it was to do compared to now. The snarl of red tape we face has grown exponentially over the decades.
I don't care about the 1%. I was never one of them and never will be. I am not taking a shot at them - I just don't give a shit about them. I have worked in high school in their homes - their world is very different than the rest of us.
Its not that different. They can die miserable like the rest of us. They can die happy like the rest of us. We all die. I know a few of them, I will be one of them in five short years, i have no college degree, and I did roofing in July in AZ. Its all the same.
Americans cry too much. Visit the rest of the world. Not the trendy vacation spots, the rest of the world. Be incredibly thankful for your 'shitty' jobs.
Living in Europe as an expat, there are many things that frustrate me beyond measure. But one of the aspects I love is that you are not defined by your job. In many contexts, it's actually considered an egregious breach of etiquette to ask someone you don't know well what they do for a living. In the US, it's usually the first thing *everyone* asks in *every* context.
Lately I have been making an effort _not_ to ask about someone's work when meeting them. It's so ingrained in so many of us. And usually our jobs are not that interesting anyways!
Which part of Europe is this? I have lived in Europe for over 25 years and both my children grew up here. You probably don't realise it (or as they say, you are a dumb American). They are not as straightforward about it but the first thing anyone wants to know when they meet you is how much money you probably have, what you do, where you live (all the same question really). This is what Americans are told constitutes 'European subtle sophistication.' I find it as subtle as a sledgehammer as my former (European) husband would say. I once had a neighbour who persistently enquired as to how I paid my trash collection. Evidently, this tells her how much (ballpark) money I have. I am a New Yorker. My mother taught us that it is truly obnoxious to mind other people's business and curiosity and interest are not the same thing. One may be indulged but never the other. The whole thing here boils down to whether or not they will greet you as you pass by. If you rank equal or greater, then yes. If lesser, you are utterly invisible and they make a point of it. That's not subtlety, it's cowardice and cheap minded. It is definitely not considered 'an egregious breach' in any European country we have been in and that's basically the entire continent. God I miss American forthright honesty. It may be crass at times, but at least they own it.
Yes, while class pigeonholing is the national sport in the UK (I'm presuming thats where you were), you don't disagree that they avoid questions about one's job.
Sorry that's been your experience, but I don't see how that's cause for name-calling. I'm sympathetic to your underlying frustration because I share it to some extent. I've lived mostly in Italy for the past 20 years, with a block of time in France, so maybe I shouldn't have generalized for privacy. I clearly did *not* say, however, that people don't care about social class. That wasn't my point at all. I merely said it was a relief not to be constantly asked what I do for a living (which, personally, I rarely have been). That particular question bores me to tears, and I find it usually cripples conversation more than it helps it along.
Couldn’t agree more. I’m 50 years old, a Gen-X’er, and have thought about many of the things the author says since my very first “professional” job. At a point I thought getting an MBA was the way out, it would allow me to find a job I really enjoyed. So, I went to a top 10 MBA program. Better career opportunities opened, and I chose to work for a nonprofit, which should be much more satisfying than working for a big corporation. I am now a VP at that nonprofit, so I have checked a lot of the “successful” career boxes… But I still don’t like my job enough to do it every weekday, using practically all my higher energy waking hours. And to think I have to do it for at least 15 more years in order to retire with a half-decent income is depressing. When I go to LinkedIn in (probably false) hopes to find greener pastures somewhere else, I sometimes find posts like “I love HR”, “I am so passionate about marketing”… really? Do people really love office jobs?
The end of your post particularly resonates, and reminds me of the slightly snarky commercial from a decade or two back featuring kids as aspiring professionals. In voice-over, one says with a satisfied smile, "I wanna grow up to be a middle manager!" or similar - in reality of course nobody does that. (-Looks around nervously-) Right?! FF to now, who ARE these people who live for office work, anyway?! And, do they go insane during time off? -Actually I have coworkers who I think might,...
LinkedIn is one of the most toxic echo chambers on the internet. People who take corporate bullshit culture home with them and pontificate about it in their personal time.
I'm not young anymore (43) and I've been in white collar work most of my career. I can't even count how many times I've been told "just put in more work now and you'll get that promotion soon" "show you're part of the team and the company will take care of you" etc. and other similar corporate talking points to make me stay later, produce more, or give up my weekends. As manager, I've even parroted some of those lines a couple times to my direct reports. I've realized that loyalty and commitment is not a two way street. Companies want you to give them everything all the time and be loyal to them, but they are only invested in you till the next downturn and would get rid of anyone who wasn't "exceeding" expectations. Which is crazy, because should we all be meeting the expectations they have for us, they definitely don't exceed my compensation expectations every year. So yes, I work hard and I am a team player, but I'm also looking for the next promotion outside the company and I'm ready to leave at a moments notice if a better opportunity came along. I no longer put any stock in the company taking care of me, I will take care of myself.
I have learned that the company will suck you dry and spit you out. I was a loyal, hard working employee for years. I always went above and beyond. That didn't stop the company from screwing me over and cancelling a policy that removed a benefit worth between $150 - $200K. I said goodbye and now 5 different people do the work I used to do. They all miss me. I don't miss them at all.
The number of times I have seen this (as a lawyer) is ridiculous. In so many cases, you can see it coming a million miles away but whoever decides to select Managers must be a monkey because they cannot see beyond the immediate. That is pretty much the definition of immature and idiotic. I have a handful, a small one, of cases where the Management acted professionally but more often professionalism wasn't part of their mindset to begin with. So how did they get into these positions? Where I live, cronyism is rampant and openly practiced, but I actually find myself, at that critical moment before I lay my eyes on the company's response and pray 'Don't let them be that stupid. How can they not see one foot ahead of the next?' Beats me. Best of luck to you Sheeby.
Some of us just don't feel like working 24/7 to make rich white men even richer.
What's with the specific gender and race-based attack?
Open your eyes and look at he top, what do you see very few if any people of color, not there aren't any capable of doing the job or even better but for the color of their skin.
Open your eyes and look at every other aspect of society where blacks underperform whites and Asians by wide margins. It takes decades of high performance to reach executive status usually. You're not going to get there in meaningful numbers when your demographic eats horrible food, is exposed to dangerous environmental hazards, is addicted to drugs, has horrible violence problems, is incarcerated at wildly disproportional rates, has lower average IQs by a wide margin, and turns to riots and victim status instead of hard work such as ever Asian immigrants have done.
There may be systemic issues, but they certainly aren't at the tops of companies who have made it their mission to racially discriminate to hire for diversity ahead of more qualified white males. Look to childhoods and broken homes to see why blacks aren't CEOs.
If you look at the people running Chinese companies at the top the majority are going to be Chinese. America was historically a majority white country so why would you not expect the leadership to be a majority white? Over time minorities will naturally achieve more and more positions of power and they are completely capable of doing it without assistance. To imply it should be done for them is an insult to their abilities and the most vicious form of racism.
It's the easiest way for them to feel victimized.
It's definitely time to start publicly calling out gender and race-based attacks on white men. I find it disturbing that modern times seem to have identified white men as "the problem". It's scarily similar to how the Nazis identified jewish people as "the problem". The only acceptable response is to push back hard.
Agreed. The character traits associated with the stereotype are the issue, not that race/gender/social class itself. (I don't know if I'm saying this right, but please know I'm trying to say that in a respectful way.)
I am assuming that all of these negative feelings are coming from fellow caucasions?
white men get called out because that's who runs (CEO level) 99% of corporations in america, therefore that's who gets promoted to management levels
These are facts not feelings.
I'm not sure what your point here is. Please clarify.
Even though the comment comes off as racist, I get where you're coming from. So, look for a non-profit or minority-owned business. Or start something yourself. Take action.
Start your own business is the best answer. It's eye-opening to be on the other side of the table.
And that's why "you people" always fail, and then blame the same people in the game you didn't want to play. At the end of the day, you're racists.
I get your comment, but to blame all white males is, at best, ignorant. Better: Some of us just don't feel like working 24/7 to make the rich richer, and the powerful more powerful. It isn't right or good or fair or moral.
As a rich white man, I don't feel like working 24/7 to make OTHER PEOPLE even richer.
Oh okay gocha. So like the people under you who are working in less favorable conditions for lower pay, while you get the majority of the benefits for delegating from your nice comfy office? Makes sense.
We're all the same people no matter where you zoom in on the corporate ladder. There are always people above and people below unless you're every level new hire or CEO.
My comment is just stating that I'll do the minimum required of my position and the remaining effort I have to give will go into my own personal endeavors.
Another harmful effect of careerism is that it is used as a carrot to keep people in bad work environments with toxic supervisors or cultures. These environments perpetuate this myth that you have to stay in this particular job because it is a necessary step in your career, and to make a move would be detrimental and "set you back." You also see this come up with recruiters and hiring managers who look down on candidates for moving in and out of jobs every year or year and a half. I work with recruiters and this always comes up on panels, and they tend to have a bias that favors the manager and is skeptical of the worker. It's a really unhealthy power dynamic.
We live in a new Gilded Age. The gap between rich and poor is the widest it's ever been, and we should be treating Bezos and Musk not as capitalist paragons but as the robber barons they truly are.
But keep praying at the altar of the State to fix it, amirite! Bernie Bros got you!
Okay, so Bozos created something that everyone uses and has completely innovated an industry. You get whatever you want delivered to you the next day. He's created more jobs, not just the people that work in amazon, but all the construction contractors and heavily stimulated local economies, and you want to see that as a bad thing. Okay tear down Amazon and see how many people become unemployed. Very smart.
I never said what he created was a bad thing and to tear it down, you're misinterpreting the point. I'm saying hoarded wealth by few individuals is very bad, and we should start by raising taxes on the ultrawealthy for a start.
They wealthy have the resources to invest in new ideas and products that create more wealth. Taking away more of there wealth only hurts everyone else in the long run.
What hurts everyone in the long run is untold billions sitting in offshore accounts while our infrastructure crumbles.
Bezos and Musk do not have their wealth sitting in offshore accounts, they have nearly all of their wealth in the controlling interest of their company's stock which has soared under their leadership. You can't tax stock positions until they are sold.
Yes, you make a great point. This is why a mix of raising capital gains taxes and reforming the estate tax would be the only meaningful way of raising them.
Not really. The gap between Bezos is technically great, but if this were 300 years ago, he'd have 1000 servants and the power to chop people's heads off. His power would be wasted focusing only on himself. Bezos just controls Amazon, which by the way, makes no profits, and the surpluses go to consumers and suppliers and employees. That's a completely different kind of wealth. Which he will mostly give away.
Read this yesterday, and there were very few comments. Upon my return, I see the corporatist status quo bootlicker boomers have logged on.
Your type bashes Boomers as if all of them are exactly the same. There is much variety among them. Gross generalizations are often the talk of the ignorant, angry, fearful, and/or inexperienced. There is an insightful documentary that examines each generation in this country and what social influences swayed their opinions and life styles. In other words, who you are (to a great extent) is governed by your place in linear time/history. Thus, have compassion for others and then CHOOSE to build something for yourself instead of tearing down others. Envision how you want the world to be. Move toward something. Don't run back to the past with a club and beat on people. Re-imagine your life and how you want it to be.
Who voted for Reagan? Boomers get the scorn they deserve.
Suppose it wasn't for the corporatist status quo bootlickers boomers. You wouldn't be where you are today! You were just typing on a corporatist status quo bootlickers Boomers Idea! Would you mind working somewhere other than McDonald's before you comment on that? You made an ass hat out of yourself to me today! Enjoy knowing you are not even close to being Troll status. You are still a douchebag level. Got to love the retards in the room! It didn't take a moment to have a thought-out, educated, Statement! These children these days just shoot from the hip
not all boomers are corporatist bootlickers just like not all millennials are lazy and unwilling to work. I think this article touched on some relevant issues. What is a "career"? Would it kill some of these billion dollar corporations to pay their workers more money? I have worked for managers who cared more about the optics of their department than actually accomplishing relevant tasks and it was draining. The idea that killing yourself for a company and putting your life and family second is a losing proposition and more people have had time to think about this during the pandemic. I was fortunate enough to be able to keep my job and work remotely to which I am grateful. But at the end of the day (or 40 years) if all you have to show is that you worked 80 hour work weeks and your family doesn't know you and you still need to work a part time job to survive was it worth shaming all of those people who wanted better work life balance?
That's what makes America so great, you can quit and go work somewhere else or start your own greedy conglomerate and then give all your money way to your employees.
What do you mean "give all your money way to your employees"? I've never heard of any boss "giving away money" to employees for any reason. The way employment works is an exchange - people perform services and receive payment. If you receive something from someone, you're just paying for what you got, not "giving" them something. I didn't just "give" the grocery store money - I was paying for food. I didn't just "give" the plumber money - I was paying for his services. I got things in those exchanges, and these CEOs are acting like they're just giving something for nothing, when they've actually got a lot - years of people's services and sacrifices for them. Just paying for what you got isn't any kind of "giving." It's just a purchase of services.
I am actually Gen X, it would be nice if we could discuss this without belittling each other. I respect the fact the Millennials are frustrated. I am as well being stuck in the so called "latchkey or sandwich" generation.
This article opens up an interesting and somewhat predictable dialog, but suffers by using one single example as a bellwether for all of corporate life, uses unnecessary vulgarities, uses pigeon holing terms like white males, and incendiary comments like 'burn the system down'. A few thoughts from someone who has worked 45 years for companies big, small, and my own: 1. No one is ever promised a rose garden, and there are speed bumps in life. As a white male I have been passed over by females lesser qualified than myself because the company had to fix the optics about female employees, I have been fired by idiot owners, and corporate changes downgraded my current position, but each time I picked myself up and moved on. I did not complain about sexism or racism or whatever. Along the way my wife and I saved a lot, did not go on expensive trips or own fancy cars, and now we own a nice home in a rural area, have no debts, and can pay it forward by ensuring our grandsons' future education. 2. The only one who will help your career is you. Forget HR or the endless self-help industry. 3. Annual reviews are a total waste of time. I decided when it was time to move on, and I found the new job or new company. 4. Discover your passions, and find jobs/careers that play to that. If you don't like what you do it will show every day and color your daily existence which is not healthy. 5. If you decide to get into a 'soft' field that doesn't require a lot of skill like retail, food service, etc., don't expect that it will provide you security and a good salary. Get an education from a good school in a profession like medicine, science, engineering, accounting, teaching. You will have to work hard for the education, but you will have a life long demand for your skills. 6. Universal income, aka socialism, is a great idea that has never worked. In Russia the heads of the party all had dachas on the Red Sea, not exactly equal to others living in squalid drab small apartments in Moscow. In Cuba everyone remains poor and they drive cars from the 1950s. Yes they have universal medical care but where do people go for a tricky operation-Cuba or the US? The people with money that you want to tax even more to realize your universal income have complete mobility and will leave: witness the many leaving CA for TX and other states. 7. Yes there are many bad managers our there. Only maybe 3 or 4 managers in my 45 years actually understood how to do it right, despite endless books on the subject. In my view, the problem is ego and hubris once a person becomes a manager, or in some cases inability to lead the charge to a larger vision. 8. Finally, if you think business is easy, go start a business, take the risks, invest your own money, find out everything is not red and green, and experience the endless compromises you have to make. That is why entrepreneurs sometimes make a lot of money-they took the risks that you won't. 9. The biggest problem in the US today is economic. We ceded middle class jobs in manufacturing decades ago to China, and the result is mainly service jobs are left which don't pay well and are less secure. Meanwhile all of our $ go to Asia, with the result that they are buying up businesses, land, homes, and have control over our economy. No politician on either side understands this. Meanwhile federal and state governments keep spending money that they don't have. 10. Be a life long learner, not a life long whiner. And yes, listen to us senior citizens. We have learned more than you have about life. Never mind that you can download and fiddle with your latest phone app faster than us-what is important, as this article shows, is PEOPLE. Good luck in life.
AMEN Yes, there are those of us who have worked more than a half century of our lives, starting out in low paying, no benefits jobs. I started at 15 in an orchard. but it was money, my own, earned by me, and I learned it's value. And NO, there isn't always "fun money". There's bills to pay, mouths to feed. We all want the nice roads, fire and police protection, water and sewer available, and of course the all important cell phone now. Then there were the Pres Carter years, "stagflation", and the economy fell apart. I washed cars at a body shop, really romantic job there for sure, but it put food on the table, and from there I purchased my first spray gun and learned to paint cars. There are those times, as we grow, learn to expect and prepare for the tough times that will always surely come, that it's not about "fun money", it's about sacrifice, learning priorities, being responsible. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and do what it takes instead of whining that the world isn't fair enough. Well sunshine, no one guarantees anyone happiness and success, it's no one's job to be your clown to entertain you or beneficiary to insure you get to live the life you'd like to become adjusted to. We are the most fortunate people here, opportunity abounds everywhere. We have a magnificent large country that we're allowed to move about in freely, if there's no suitable employment where you are, move. My wife and I did at least a half dozen times, experiencing new places and people along the way, making lifelong friends. If all you desire to do in this country is enough to survive, yes, you can do that, there are plenty of safety nets to help you live your chosen bottom rung existence. If you want more, you have to increase your worth to the overall society. You work harder, smarter, improve your education, you become more valuable, you earn more, you live better. It's not rocket science people, you reap what you sow. I came from a poor coal mining region, we didn't even have indoor plumbing yet when I was a kid. There's no excuses, no matter what your political leanings there's just no better place in the world for ANYONE to live a satisfying life, as long as you're willing to put forth some kind of reasonable effort. You don't have to be rich, surely I'm not, but you can be comfortable. It just takes an effort to get there, and why shouldn't it? There ain't nothing in this life for free, somebody pays, never forget that. So you decide which side of the tracks you're satisfied to live on. You're either going to be satisfied doing as little as possible and relying on being subsidized by societies scraps or you're going to put in more effort and be one of those who are generating the scraps for you to inherit. That's life, always has been, always will be. There's not a civilized social structure on the planet that doesn't have those who have more than others.
Excellent comment, BUT it doesn't address what the article is all about -- companies that insist that, in order to have a "career," their employees should give them their unquestioned loyalty and 24/7 access to their lives. I don't advocate the overthrow of anything; I simply feel that there's a better way to work.
I really appreciate how respectful and well-written this comment is. You did not attack anyone, and were very logical. Thank you.
I was going to respond to this whiny article myself, but you have said all I wanted to say and more. Kudos!!!
well said
I'm 67 years old and I've been retired since 2014. These past few years have been the best ones of my life. Like the younger people mentioned in this story, I too, have struggled with the meaning of work and to have some sort of work-life balance throughout my "career." I lived in a different time, when housing was less expensive and I came out of graduate school without debt, so I was able to eek out a living by trying to work part-time and taking time off between jobs to get a break. The Gen X and Gen Zers have my sympathy. I hope that one silver lining of the pandemic is a true grass-roots labor movement of people who refuse to sell their souls to corporate America. I will leave you with this quote by Lily Tomlin that has inspired me throughout the years, "The problem with the rat race is that, even if you win, you're still a rat."
Getting together to demand significant increases in pay is also just as crucial. The income inequity in our society is unsustainable and workers paid as little as the lower economic class of laborers have no power compared to the wealthy.
This is why we are becoming the softest country in the world and a laughing stock. This much complaint over the possibility of working in an air-conditioned office every day? across the world people are dealing with real problems; fleeing for their life's. Now us, facing no true adversity, are creating issues, acting entitled to everything and working for none of it. You know how big corporations are built? Through an amount of work that is unfathomable to you. The amount of work that it takes to build a successful company cannot be quantified. That's why you aren't successful. Instead of being motivated and working harder to change your station in life, you are stamping your feet and throwing a tantrum. It is mind boggling the amount of backwards thinking and the ability to victimize yourself on this thread. Grow up and make something of yourself, you aren't entitled to anything deadbeat.
Lots of things in life are an 'unfathomable amount of work' -- building a corporation as you say, but also: mastering an instrument, having amazing relationships, creative writing, mastering oneself, avoiding comment sections, etc. The critics are not saying that building a corporation isn't fine, only that is no more valuable than other life goals.
What you say is true. Only problem is you can't do an "unfathomable amount of work" on all those things at the same time. Mastering oneself may be satisfying, but it won't pay the bills or provide for a comfortable retirement--neither of which are things to which you are entitled no matter how mastered you are of yourself.
But some people realize that there is value in more than one thing on this earth. I think it's just to ask for good relationships and a comfortable retirement. I personally would never value my job so much that I would be willing to give up my marriage for it (which many people have done), but I don't think that makes me unworthy of financial stability.
True. Many people work very hard and do wonderful things that others enjoy -- and the financial reward is oftentimes missing. Our societal values are screwed up. And, yes, avoiding the comments section is quite difficult.
Just curious, have you ever worked a job that had no sick/vacation pay or any health benefits? How long did you work there?
Also, there is currently 10.3 million job openings with 6 million people looking for work. that is a surplus of 4 million jobs. There is no excuse in this environment for anyone to work for a company that does not have the benefits they want.
Right, but Marcus, many of those jobs do not allow people to earn enough to pay for their rent and basic goods and services, let alone save for things like a car or a down payment on a house. What people really want is a good job--one that pays enough for people to afford basic needs plus savings and a "fun budget." Otherwise, what is the point? You work until you die, that's what. And that is a miserable existence.
Also yeah, this article is really talking about a specific subset of office work/white collar work. Some of that work is also really exploitative, especially if you are not a higher-up in the company. But many of these open jobs are in the service industry, where low pay and long hours (But also--never offering enough hours to force you to take on a second job) is industry standard.
Well if you are an unskilled worker, then the only job you are qualified for is an entry level job. Entry level jobs are not hard so why should you be disproportionately rewarded? If you want a good job, then you need a skill at that you better at than most people. The amount you make and that is in your savings account is a literal number for how useful you are to society. If you aren't very useful, then you won't have much. If you are incredibly useful, then you will have an incredible amount. What is wrong with this model? It encourages you to be better and more creative. This is how new ideas and innovation are born. It incentivizes you to be better.
There's nothing wrong with the model. However, it is a fiction in reality. And plenty of stupid lazy people wind up rich...
If working hard were a prerequisite for great benefits and pay, firefighters would be one of the highest paying jobs out there.
Newsflash:
They aren't.
Correct, neither are police officers and paramedics. I have been talking about private sector. Not going to argue about government positions such as these. These people do deserve more I agree 100%.
That is an incredibly naive worldview born of ignorance. Are you telling me that Donald Trump is useful to society despite inheriting all his money from his father? Of course not. Your "model", if such a ramshackle excuse for a baseless assertion, is false. It fails to account for the fact that people at the top don't want people at the bottom to "steal" their "finite resource" by legitimately earning it. Do you know what happens if you are incredibly useful? You stay in your position until you fall ill, die, or are made "redundant". You get raises measured in cents until some new, young, fresh-faced candidate is willing to work your job at base pay, and suddenly, you're "no longer needed." Or you slip and fall on the job and shatter your hip, go to get your worker's comp, and suddenly, when you go to come back after your convalescence, it turns out your position is now redundant and the company no longer needs you and you're stuck footing the bill for the hip replacement you needed.
But don't worry! I'm sure you won't regret this stance in 30 years when suddenly it's *you* out of a job and watching your "literal number for how useful you are to society" dwindle and wither and die.
I'll take a Donald Trump who inherited a few million and turned into billions than a Clinton or Obama who went into politics with nothing and managed to parlay their connections into hundreds of millions of dollars by selling access to the US Treasury.
His father built a fortune for his family, so his kids would never have to work again. That is a very impressive accomplishment and Donald Trump won the lottery when he was born into that family. He got lucky and us not as much. You can be bitter about people having more and feel sorry for yourself, or you can amass a fortune for your family. If it was easy everyone would be rich. Its not easy, so don't expect it to be. If you work somewhere for years and don't advance, no one else is responsible for your station in life except yourself. If you took no risks, you will get no rewards. If you get a raise in cents, then your skills and usefulness are nearly the same as the were the year before. If you stay in the same position in life for any extended period of time then do some self-reflection. The cream will always rise to the top.
In a truly civilized society, ALL people, who are able, should be able to find meaningful work. All people should be appreciated for their efforts and treated with respect. The overall problem is more about hierarchy and the pretense that some people are more worthy and better than others. Our system is broken. It is barbaric in many ways. We are living in the 21st Century, not in the last century, or 2000 years ago. Humans are supposed to get better with time, to become more enlightened, to evolve -- not to remain stunted and kept in the past, and beholden to the status quo. Our spiritual teachings remind us to become more heart-centered, to become more compassionate, to move toward "godliness," and to recognize that we are all in this together and that all are essential to the whole of existence. Work is destined to change because humans are changing. What we see now are the growing pains of our continued evolution. To resist the inevitable is futile.
No, not everyone is essential and neither is their job. This was made PAINFULLY obvious during quarantine. Many people work jobs that are not essential to keep the world turning. It may be uncomfortable but it's a fact of life. Hierarchies are not bad either. I do not want people in charge that would perform worse than the people below them. So they are very necessary and good.
Do you not know the basis of a market economy? It seems like those 4 million job opportunities need to step up to the competition and offer something better to attract more employees because surprise surprise still abiding by 19th century ideological protestant work ethic that you like masturbating your ego over seems to be going out of style (and thank goodness for that). Though I'm sure you having your basic dignity and humanity stripped from you working hard construction jobs as though you were a lifeless automaton means others should face the same because 'that's what a strong and stoic person does!', and I'm sure it also is all the fault of the government's giving 'handouts' and giving people the decision to temporarily have a shred of decency and leverage when it comes to picking dehumanizing jobs, and not a result of a complex function of various systems acting the way they are and making things the way they are.
13 years. It wasn't just a company, it was the industry. I can always tell when someone didn't pay their debt, went to college, and now has a "real job" without ever having to actually work a day in their life, but still complains about how rough they got it. "No benefits!? Exploitation!" You people are pathetic.
I put myself through college by sweating through steal toed leather work boots in both 110 heat and -15 with windchill. Next time you go over a bridge you should think of me never working a day in my life.
I like your comment. I will think of you whenever I see a bridge. ;)
I was responding to Alex Perry. The substack system sucks.
my b
Yes, I worked bridge construction to put myself through school. I've worked 17 hour days in both extreme heat and cold. I worked there for three years. Out of the Jobs I had it was both the hardest and the most rewarding
I think it's worth pointing out that you only stayed there for three years. Even you, who is going on and on about working hard didn't stay at a miserable job for long. That is exactly what the article is about. Not people who refuse to work, but people who refuse to work in poor conditions for their entire working life.
Because I put myself through school..... and after my degree I still worked for months talking myself into using my degree. Hard work with your hands, building a structure that millions of people drive on is incredibly rewarding.
Understood and agreed; however, by nature of our structure, SOMEONE has to keep doing those tough jobs. It wouldn't work if everyone had an office job. Who farms? Who does construction? I think you understand what I'm trying to say. I too put myself through school and am starting up the business ladder, but that doesn't mean the people who stayed where I came from shouldn't be treated better.
The minimum wage for all highway workers is different. The counties I worked in were $14 and $17.58 an hour minimum wage for no experience. Construction companies are always hiring people as well. At 55 hours a week I was making the same as I do now with a desk job and a degree. Despite the hard work we were still rewarded well. That's why those tough jobs will stay around. I never felt mistreated in my years there because everyone showed up to do the work and reap the benefits. There was plenty of people on my crew that had no high school diploma, been to jail, and still making $25 an hour before overtime.
Yes, there will always be people that have it better than others, I will not argue that because you are correct. If that is wrong or not is where I differ.
You built something. That feels good. There it is!
You are right those workers sure do an unfathomable amount of work that no shareholder or CEO can fathom
The Koch brothers - some of the riches men alive - literally hold meetings at midnight's on weekends because of the amount they work. Their reward for this ridiculous amount of work is a ridiculous amount of wealth. They fathom it because they do more work than every other person at their company.
I'm sure they work very hard having those midnight meetings about who they should delegate managerial duties to manage that work they can oh so fathom
Yes, that is your Job as a manager or CEO. Delegating tasks to the best person is the difference between a successful company and one that is not. I'm glad you are understanding what people above you do.
Well stated!