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Julia and people like her deserve our gratitude. Great interview, thanks Charlie.

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I loved this, also because having people like Julia Marcus helped a lot in confirming my belief, contra most people in my networks, that yes, shaming remains ineffective and counterproductive and harm reduction is the ethically and practically right approach to take. I'm still coming to terms with the reality that people thought it was reasonable to just

... never see other people, period. There's so much (and so many different kinds of) damage and loss from this time that will need to be resolved.

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well timed piece and so informative, thanks CTW

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Love this interview - thank you!

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Every person, every day, for all of human history, has done a risk/reward calculation that guided their daily activities. The problem comes when a risk-averse Public Health apparatus imposes their own risk/reward calculation on society. It is time for humility instead of hubris: provide information (do the vital research!) - encourage (don't legally require!) particular safeguards - and let people live according to their own risk tolerance. That is what it is to live in a free society and that is all that is needed to maintain trust in the Public Health system.

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"So, if you’re saying the pandemic is over...who is it over for?"

Phenomenal way to look at this. The follow-up point that they seemed to be getting at - that only certain parts of the pandemic were over as people still sheltered and quarantined and continued other pandemic behaviors - was similarly poignant. Good shit, y'all.

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